Curse

Lourens · Jun 08, 2008, 08:36 AM // 08:36

/signed

I'm sick of grinding

munky · Jun 08, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

whats funny is that topics like this get started almost every day now...
if they where going to do something about it you'd think it'd be done by now...

so can the people who don't like pve skills not use them and leave the people that don't have the time to set up a "normal" team alone? and about not being able to find a group unless you have rank 8+ ursan, there are so many people that hate ursan I find that hard to believe, yes iv been to ToA where all you see is looking for rank 8+ ursan, but just get some friends or join a guild that likes the thrill of doing an elite area in 2 and a half hours just cuz "there more leet for useing a non-ursan build"

if someone has a fair nerf for pve skills thats fine, but if someone is saying "nerf it to the ground cuz the people that spent time to get the bonus get it and I don't", then honestly thats just sad.

for all the people that say they don't want to use pve skills they just don't like how they have affected the game, why don't you stop QQing and come up with a better, faster, easer to run team build for the areas?

ps. is that pve skill attribute thing a joke?

kostolomac · Jun 08, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by House Silvermoon

the pve skills not only break the game but turn all of us into clones. pretty much the only thing people run nowadays is hb monks and ub. pretty sad for a game with hundreds of skills and 10 professions to only run 2 builds and button mash to victory.

Yet before ursan only 3 to 5 proffesions were used.
And why do you bother with people who use ursan to clear elite areas. When i go there i think about the area , teammates , not the fact that someone can clear FoW in 30 minutes while i do it in an hour and I'm not sad or angry.
I grinded norn to rank 7 and stopped. Now should I cry at arena net to remove the blessings?

pumpkin pie · Jun 08, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

what has PvE skill got to do with grinding? it infact eliminate the time you have to get something.

Abedeus · Jun 08, 2008, 10:10 AM // 10:10

No. Because, if you actually had ANY idea of what's going on in PvE, you'd know that to get into a PuG you have to grind your ass to at least r8 ursan and r7 lightbringer. That isn't eliminating time. It's making everything stupidly long to grind.

pumpkin pie · Jun 08, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

so, what you want is for people who already "grind" like you say to the stages where they don't need to grind anymore to go back to grinding using un-powerful skill and do elite mission that last for 5 hours?

BlackSephir · Jun 08, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

what has PvE skill got to do with grinding? it infact eliminate the time you have to get something.

Oh, gee, ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Now let's think... what has pve skill got to do with grinding... Quickly, rez Einstein, maybe he'll figure it out!

Abedeus · Jun 08, 2008, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

so, what you want is for people who already "grind" like you say to the stages where they don't need to grind anymore to go back to grinding using un-powerful skill and do elite mission that last for 5 hours?

5 hours? Wow. Really? Yesterday with my guild (Normal Mode, of course, because DoA in hard mode is almost impossible using balance) we cleared DoA (without Mallyx) in 2:31, including brief after-wipe rezzings and few rests between areas. We used only 6 pve skills - Save Yourselves, There is Nothing to Fear, You Move Like a Dwarf, Whirling Attack, Seed of Life and Great Dwarf Weapon. Guess what, wasn't hard. After the hardest part of Gloom (the cave) it was pretty easy. Only one over-aggroing almost wiped us ;d.

Quote:

grinding using un-powerful skill

Yeah, it's hard to call ,,un-powerful skill'' a ,,balanced skill'', right? And what's scarier, that skill works...

Marverick · Jun 08, 2008, 11:29 AM // 11:29

/signed

The PvE attribute idea is great.

mafia cyborg · Jun 08, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

all pve skills should be removed.
there should be no pve version of pvp skills.
skills can only be compared through maths and actual testing vs each other (=PVP)
the issue in pve was not balance between skills but effectiveness of these vs AI mobs.
altering the AI and mob composition is the "balance" that should concern pve players. (example:if AI detected and avoided traps then trapping would turn from good to bad without alterin the actual skills)

Lagg · Jun 08, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

/signed, of course

But not going to happen.

We have to convince Anet with more creative ideas to nerf PvE skills, while keeping the unwashed masses happy.

sph0nz · Jun 08, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by munky

whats funny is that topics like this get started almost every day now...
if they where going to do something about it you'd think it'd be done by now...

so can the people who don't like pve skills not use them and leave the people that don't have the time to set up a "normal" team alone? and about not being able to find a group unless you have rank 8+ ursan, there are so many people that hate ursan I find that hard to believe, yes iv been to ToA where all you see is looking for rank 8+ ursan, but just get some friends or join a guild that likes the thrill of doing an elite area in 2 and a half hours just cuz "there more leet for useing a non-ursan build"

if someone has a fair nerf for pve skills thats fine, but if someone is saying "nerf it to the ground cuz the people that spent time to get the bonus get it and I don't", then honestly thats just sad.

for all the people that say they don't want to use pve skills they just don't like how they have affected the game, why don't you stop QQing and come up with a better, faster, easer to run team build for the areas?

ps. is that pve skill attribute thing a joke?

Posting here at least shows that I care, and that my voice may be heard as opposed to saying absolutely nothing, and ArenaNet assuming "everything's fine because no one is complaining".

Hay guess wat guise. Your "solution" doesn't solve the problem at hand. "Don't like, don't use it" does not solve the problem. Joining a guild that does not use Ursan (even though this is about all three blessings because they all function similarly) does not solve the problem.

Further, no. This "PvE only attribute" is not a joke. It's a solution to the problem of title discrimination, which is really RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid because titles don't display any level of skill, only "experience"/time spent, and while it may be true that people improve over time, people also get worse over time, or don't improve at all because PvE doesn't allow people to become better players. Also, I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, but titles were introduced without any inherent benefits, and were meant as purely optional vanity to give players something to do. I find it hard to believe that players would not have worked on the sunspear, lightbringer, or EOTN reputation titles if PvE skills were not linked to them; after all, the titles still have inherent benefits.

Why don't YOU come up with a better solution to the problem of title discrimination? Additionally, class discrminaton at least holds more water than title discrimination could ever do; since not all classes are the same it is understandable why certain classes are preferred over others. This, however is a seperate issue, and if you want my opinion it is just as stupid, especially in PvE since "PvE is soooooooo easy".

seandom · Jun 08, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LockerLoad

This is blatant bait and switch. I for one would like a refund for my purchase price seeing as this is FRAUD.

I paid for a game that required skill, not grind.

Sadly, this is not "blatant bait and switch". If you'd like to get technical about it, Guild Wars Prophecies was advertised as a game in which skill > time and that is the truth. Most things in Prophecies do require more skill rather than time. You got what you paid for, and if you only had Propechies, your game expereience would mostly require skill > time. However, to the best of my knowledge, neither Factions, Nightfall, or GW:EN was advertised as such, and each brought elements into the game in which they required you to grind. Therefore, you still got what you paid for, 3 chapters of an MMO in which you had to grind.

That being said, it is really unnecessary for all of these CONSTANT complaints about how Guild Wars has become time > skill based. If there really is as much support for not using PvE skills and just using the regular skills, then maybe all of you "anti-PvE skills" players should form a list or group of some sort so you can all group together.

I've said this before on these forums and I'll say it again. PvE skills give character classes outside the realm of W/N/E/Mo to get in groups also. Without PvE skills, for the people who would rather play someting else, it is almost required that you spend THE SAME amount of time grinding one of these classes up to "usability" in order to get into a group too. However, due to PvE skills, I can bring my ranger into a group, or my guildie can bring his ritualist into a PvE group, because instead of grinding a new character out, we just grinded a new title.

beaverlegions · Jun 08, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

/signed even though it will never happen, i would be very happy to see ursan deleted, that way the rly shitty players would give up

Tyla · Jun 08, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaverlegions

/signed even though it will never happen, i would be very happy to see ursan deleted, that way the rly shitty players would give up

You mean the majority of this game's players?

Ah well, Anet have their money now so it's not of their concern mirite?

pumpkin pie · Jun 08, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Although i don't use PvE skills, but i hate it when people try to make other people do things their ways which is why i don't use PvE skills in the first place, PvE skills users recruiting Rxx ursan and what not and players who try to make them unable to use RXS ursan are all the same!

munky · Jun 08, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

lets see how can this thread be more productive?... oh I know lets talk about politics or better yet what "god" is the real one.... honestly is anyone really thinking about the people who diden't QQ all day, and did the grind for the titles already? or are they just pissed that people don't feel like playing the game like them.

there seem to be a few views on ursan, and for every view someone has a counter.

"if you don't like it don't us it", simple right? well that dosen't help the people that can't find a group when all that is being looked for is ursan... is it that hard to find a elite pve guild that has an anti-ursan policy?(with all the hate on ursan i doubt it)

"nerf it cuz ursan groups never let me join", ok so you'v accepted ursan? but are mad cuz people that have grinded to get to rank 10 won't accept you? and you rank 3, stop being a lazy person and just do the grind, its not that hard... (im sure for as much as people QQ over ursan, they'd have rank 10 if they where farming points.)

"nerf it cuz it unbalances pve and the skill system", really? ok ill say it its kinda sad that most pugs for elite pve missions have been reduced to basicly two builds, but honestly why do you think people run ursan? "cuz they are noobs who cant run anything els", that is just a sad lie, ursan is a easy to run build that works great for pugs. (yes mostly cuz it's easy, but who cares, so people that haven't done the elite area before can, without fear of failing. is that so bad? or would you rather see, "group lfm for fow clear only experienced people", ?)

sph0nz · Jun 08, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by munky

lets see how can this thread be more productive?... oh I know lets talk about politics or better yet what "god" is the real one.... honestly is anyone really thinking about the people who diden't QQ all day, and did the grind for the titles already? or are they just pissed that people don't feel like playing the game like them.

I lol'd. If this is some sort of personal attack (because I love philosophy), then good luck. You seem to believe that not imposing someone else's beliefs is a bad thing, but on the contrary allowing anyone to believe anything can be a very dangerous thing. It seems that most people posting cannot accept criticism, do not like change, and want to believe whatever they want to. Moving on..

Quote:

Originally Posted by munky

there seem to be a few views on ursan, and for every view someone has a counter.

"if you don't like it don't us it", simple right? well that dosen't help the people that can't find a group when all that is being looked for is ursan... is it that hard to find a elite pve guild that has an anti-ursan policy?(with all the hate on ursan i doubt it)

Is it that hard to see that this "solution" does not solve anything? This idea just avoids the problem completely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by munky

"nerf it cuz ursan groups never let me join", ok so you'v accepted ursan? but are mad cuz people that have grinded to get to rank 10 won't accept you? and you rank 3, stop being a lazy person and just do the grind, its not that hard... (im sure for as much as people QQ over ursan, they'd have rank 10 if they where farming points.)

This thread addresses the problems all three Norn blessings share, and that is the way they function in regards to the original premise of the game. It is a direct contradiction, and if the functional is "working as intended", then I don't know what a game bug is anymore. Furthermore, I never stated that grinding was a difficult task; it is only time consuming. I find this hilarious that I'm being accused of being "lazy" because I want to get the maximum efficiency from the PvE only skills without having to work on a shitty title that takes time, not skill to complete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by munky

"nerf it cuz it unbalances pve and the skill system", really? ok ill say it its kinda sad that most pugs for elite pve missions have been reduced to basicly two builds, but honestly why do you think people run ursan? "cuz they are noobs who cant run anything els", that is just a sad lie, ursan is a easy to run build that works great for pugs. (yes mostly cuz it's easy, but who cares, so people that haven't done the elite area before can, without fear of failing. is that so bad? or would you rather see, "group lfm for fow clear only experienced people", ?)

This issue is not about "PvE balance". The problem the Norn blessins have is the way they function. And yeah, I would rather see people advertising for shitty tank-n-spank builds because they take more skill to use than ursan in a game that advocated "skill>time".

This thread is about title discrimination and its effects on the community. Please, stay on topic.

aB- · Jun 08, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

The "If you don't like it don't use it" argument could be one of the worst ones possible. If that were the case there would be no need to balance ANY game of PvE. You don't think the people who created games like Final Fantasy...or Baldur's Gate just created all of the skills without balancing them, do you? And then would they just tell the players they didn't have to use the overpowered skills so they were fine? Of course not.

The only thing I'm disappointed in is how the entire philosophy of Guild Wars has changed. The Allegiance or Faction titles are nothing BUT grind and it honestly takes no skill to complete, only time. Advancing this title directly affects the strength of your PvE skills, and since only time was required to strengthen the skills, time=strength.

munky · Jun 08, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

I lol'd. If this is some sort of personal attack (because I love philosophy), then good luck.

no, it was more just about the QQ over pve, titles discrimination threads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

Is it that hard to see that this "solution" does not solve anything? This idea just avoids the problem completely.

you have a batter idea, that works for both partys? lets hear it cuz so far all you'v done is say "lets get rid of norn blessings and you know forget the people who already put tons of time into it", yes i know you have rank 10 norn I did read the thread, but really what dose that mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

I never stated that grinding was a difficult task; it is only time consuming. I find this hilarious that I'm being accused of being "lazy" because I want to get the maximum efficiency from the PvE only skills without having to work on a shitty title that takes time, not skill to complete.

i never said that you said it was hard, just saying thats something someone has said. And did you just say it was funny to call you lazy becuase you don't feel like spending time to get a reward of pve skills? right....

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

This thread is about title discrimination and its effects on the community. Please, stay on topic.

yes... cuz we all know it was better in the good old days of 3 to 4 classes getting a pug for an elite mission then it is now.